List server 'myposts on' fails to echo my own posts
Past: I received echoes of my own posts. Now: I do not receive echoes of my own posts. In response to a 'set show' query to ffmpeg-user-owner@ffmpeg.org, I got this reply: The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message. - Results: Your current option settings: ack off digest off delivery on myposts on hide off duplicates on reminders on - Done.
On 2/23/2020 5:33 PM, Mark Filipak wrote:
Past: I received echoes of my own posts. Now: I do not receive echoes of my own posts.
Kind of surprised you were seeing them before, it's a known problem (in the mailing list community) that goog will try to suppress your own posts to a list ("you wrote it so you've already seen it"). Some get through, many don't. https://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20use%20Gmail-Googlemail%2C%20but%20I%20can%27t%... AFAIK there isn't much the list can do to stop gggl from dropping what it wants to. Later, z!
On 02/23/2020 09:48 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
On 2/23/2020 5:33 PM, Mark Filipak wrote:
Past: I received echoes of my own posts. Now: I do not receive echoes of my own posts.
Kind of surprised you were seeing them before, it's a known problem (in the mailing list community) that goog will try to suppress your own posts to a list ("you wrote it so you've already seen it"). Some get through, many don't.
There are 3 reasons why that can't be correct and that the problem is with the ffmpeg-user list server (probably configuration): 1, Other lists that use mailman work as intended (i.e., I get my own posts echoed back to me, for example: support-thunderbird & support-firefox), 2, When I log into my markfilipak.windows Google Account, echoed messages from ffmpeg-user are NOT FOUND in the trash, and 3, I use Google Mail for POP, only, NOT for SMTP, so Google has no way to know (or track) my role in ffmpeg-user.
On 2/23/2020 7:29 PM, Mark Filipak wrote:
There are 3 reasons why that can't be correct and that the problem is with the ffmpeg-user list server (probably configuration):
1, Other lists that use mailman work as intended (i.e., I get my own posts echoed back to me, for example: support-thunderbird & support-firefox),
What's different about them and their content handling? Are they MM2 or MM3? (And are the message IDs the same on sent and received messages? Has the body been munged in any way?)
2, When I log into my markfilipak.windows Google Account, echoed messages from ffmpeg-user are NOT FOUND in the trash, and
They don't get "trashed", they never make it as far as your folders. Did you read the page I linked? Among other things- "It appears that any message you receive with a Message-ID: matching one already in your gmail folders will be discarded as a duplicate."
3, I use Google Mail for POP, only, NOT for SMTP, so Google has no way to know (or track) my role in ffmpeg-user.
Just like ffmpeg, giving better info gets better answers. So how -do- you send messages if not via SMTP to google? Using what userID? I don't run ffmpeg's mailing lists (and can't directly fix this issue), but have been running mailman lists for 15+ years. Delivery to guugle has been a constant problem; and the usual answer from the mailman developers is that it's a happy accident when you do see your own messages to the list. z!
On 02/23/2020 11:47 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
On 2/23/2020 7:29 PM, Mark Filipak wrote:
There are 3 reasons why that can't be correct and that the problem is with the ffmpeg-user list server (probably configuration):
1, Other lists that use mailman work as intended (i.e., I get my own posts echoed back to me, for example: support-thunderbird & support-firefox),
What's different about them and their content handling? Are they MM2 or MM3? (And are the message IDs the same on sent and received messages? Has the body been munged in any way?)
I don't know such stuff -- why would I? You might profit from contact with the Mozilla list maintainers. May I suggest that whatever they do, works.
2, When I log into my markfilipak.windows Google Account, echoed messages from ffmpeg-user are NOT FOUND in the trash, and
They don't get "trashed", they never make it as far as your folders. Did you read the page I linked? Among other things- "It appears that any message you receive with a Message-ID: matching one already in your gmail folders will be discarded as a duplicate."
See above.
3, I use Google Mail for POP, only, NOT for SMTP, so Google has no way to know (or track) my role in ffmpeg-user.
Just like ffmpeg, giving better info gets better answers. So how -do- you send messages if not via SMTP to google? Using what userID?
I sent all SMTP through my ISP, Spectrum (successor to Time Warner Cable).
I don't run ffmpeg's mailing lists (and can't directly fix this issue), but have been running mailman lists for 15+ years. Delivery to guugle has been a constant problem; and the usual answer from the mailman developers is that it's a happy accident when you do see your own messages to the list.
Again, the Mozilla list admins seem to have the recipe.
Am 24.02.20 um 05:58 schrieb Mark Filipak:
3, I use Google Mail for POP, only, NOT for SMTP, so Google has no way to know (or track) my role in ffmpeg-user.
Just like ffmpeg, giving better info gets better answers. So how -do- you send messages if not via SMTP to google? Using what userID?
I sent all SMTP through my ISP, Spectrum (successor to Time Warner Cable)
and why are you fool doing this? gmail.com. 300 IN TXT "v=spf1 redirect=_spf.google.com"
Reindl Harald (12020-02-24):
and why are you fool
Refrain from insulting users. Thanks in advance. -- Nicolas George
Am 24.02.20 um 14:35 schrieb Nicolas George:
Reindl Harald (12020-02-24):
and why are you fool
Refrain from insulting users. Thanks in advance
using a random SMTP server for a random domain is foolish, by the user and by the ISP which accepts mails with envelope senders for which he has no business this is a classical FORGED MAIL and deserves to be fighted with fire because with such, again, fools the life of mail operators is terrible by trying to distinct junk and forged stuff from foolish users
Reindl Harald (12020-02-24):
Refrain from insulting users. Thanks in advance using a random SMTP server for a random domain is foolish, by the user and by the ISP which accepts mails with envelope senders for which he has no business
this is a classical FORGED MAIL and deserves to be fighted with fire because with such, again, fools the life of mail operators is terrible by trying to distinct junk and forged stuff from foolish users
I don't care about your arguments. Make your point politely or do not make it at all on this mailing-list. That's all. -- Nicolas George
Briefly back on topic: I subscribe to all my mailing lists with two different gmail addresses. One of which I send mail with (but tell the mailing list manager never to deliver mail to) and one which I subscribe to the list on (but never send mail with). That way I can use gmail and still get copies verified to have made the round trip and actually showed up on the mailing list.
On 2/24/2020 6:55 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
Briefly back on topic: I subscribe to all my mailing lists with two different gmail addresses. One of which I send mail with (but tell the mailing list manager never to deliver mail to) and one which I subscribe to the list on (but never send mail with).
OK.... useful info. This also means that the problem is not getting "your posts back", which implies coming back to the _sending_ address, but getting posts you sent to -another- gmail address (a -very- different thing in email delivery). Sounds like you're using two mailboxes for precisely the reason I mentioned. Could be delivery is disabled somehow by mailman. Could be guugle is dumping them. You seem to point to the ffmpeg list on the only evidence that the moz lists don't have this problem. At this point, the only way to know is a somewhat detailed analysis of messages/headers and for some directed/controlled testing and with the involvement of whoever is maintaining the ffmpeg lists (which isn't me). Anything else is blind conjecture. Note- Take a good look at the Message-ID fields of original sent message and ones received (you may need also a non-gmail box to catch them). It the ID is unchanged, then it's more likely that goog will drop the message*, if they've changed then something is improperly monkeying with them. *anecdotal evidence suggests that if guug even things two mailboxes are used by one person, they will drop what they consider dups Yes, IMNSHO rudeness is never appropriate here; Reindl has never cared about that. z!
On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:20:58 -0800 Carl Zwanzig wrote:
OK.... useful info. This also means that the problem is not getting "your posts back"
Not me, I was not the original poster, I just was pointing out how I get around the annoying gmail behavior in general.
On 02/24/2020 09:38 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 24.02.20 um 14:35 schrieb Nicolas George:
Reindl Harald (12020-02-24):
and why are you fool
Refrain from insulting users. Thanks in advance
using a random SMTP server for a random domain is foolish...
I am not using a random SMTP server. I'm using my ISP's SMTP server. I have dozens of Googlemail accounts. I don't use any of them for SMTP. I use them solely for POP. markfilipak.mozilla The 'support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org' and 'support-firefox@lists.mozilla.org' mailing lists echo my posts back to me. They are POPed by my Googlemail 'Mozilla' account. markfilipak.windows+ffmpeg The 'ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org' mailing list _does_not_ echo my posts back to me. It is POPed by my Googlemail 'Windows' account. The only difference between them is that for 'markfilipak.mozilla', my 'From' header is spoofed: 'From: Mark Filipak <markfilipak@bog.us>', whereas for 'markfilipak.windows+ffmpeg', my 'From' address is not spoofed: 'From: Mark Filipak <markfilipak.windows+ffmpeg@gmail.com>'. I didn't think about it before, but perhaps the spoofing is the reason 'markfilipak.mozilla' is echoed back, eh?
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 20:21:39 -0500, Mark Filipak wrote:
I didn't think about it before, but perhaps the spoofing is the reason 'markfilipak.mozilla' is echoed back, eh?
Using envelope (and possibly header) "From:" addresses not supported by your SMTP relay is bound to fail BIG TIME in this century. You need to use a proper relay for each and every one of your "From:" addresses to guarantee delivery. Luckily, most outgoing SMTP already do a sanity check when you deliver to them. (Possibly for other reasons - they want you to use *their* domains - but to the same effect.) Cheers, Moritz
Am 25.02.20 um 09:51 schrieb Moritz Barsnick:
Luckily, most outgoing SMTP already do a sanity check when you deliver to them. (Possibly for other reasons - they want you to use *their* domains - but to the same effect.)
as mailadmin i can tell you the reasons: i simply don't want my mailservers blacklisted by deliver forged mail all day long and risk quality of service because i want my users email delivered
Am 25.02.20 um 02:21 schrieb Mark Filipak:
On 02/24/2020 09:38 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 24.02.20 um 14:35 schrieb Nicolas George:
Reindl Harald (12020-02-24):
and why are you fool
Refrain from insulting users. Thanks in advance
using a random SMTP server for a random domain is foolish...
I am not using a random SMTP server. I'm using my ISP's SMTP server.
I have dozens of Googlemail accounts. I don't use any of them for SMTP. I use them solely for POP.
it is a random server i am not allowed to tell you honestly what you are when you are not capable using the smtp server belonging to a domain and understand why everything else is asking fro troubles! are you working for Apple and desigend their mail app on the iPhones which by stupidity when they don#t reach the smtp server beloging to an accoutn try a random one from other accounts leading in reject as forged mail when you send from a *random server* which it is with a sender envelope of a domain we are hosting to a different domain we are hosting it get rejected for over 10 years to fight people like you with fire
participants (6)
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Carl Zwanzig -
Mark Filipak -
Moritz Barsnick -
Nicolas George -
Reindl Harald -
Tom Horsley