Is there an equivalent of Drobox Lepton but for h.264 videos?
Is there an equivalent of Drobox Lepton but for h.264 videos? Lepton is a lossless compression algorithm to compress jpeg at around 20% there initial file size without any data loss. This is ideal to achieve jpeg. What about h.264 videos? -- Best Regards, Stephane Archer
сб, 30 сент. 2023 г., 16:58 Stéphane Archer <archerstephane@gmail.com>:
Is there an equivalent of Drobox Lepton but for h.264 videos? Lepton is a lossless compression algorithm to compress jpeg at around 20% there initial file size without any data loss. This is ideal to achieve jpeg. What about h.264 videos?
well, h264 videos already heavy and usually lossy compressed, any further compression will be not lossless
-- Best Regards,
Stephane Archer _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-user
To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-user-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:00 AM Andrew Randrianasulu < randrianasulu@gmail.com> wrote:
сб, 30 сент. 2023 г., 16:58 Stéphane Archer <archerstephane@gmail.com>:
Is there an equivalent of Drobox Lepton but for h.264 videos? Lepton is a lossless compression algorithm to compress jpeg at around 20% there initial file size without any data loss. This is ideal to achieve jpeg. What about h.264 videos?
well, h264 videos already heavy and usually lossy compressed, any further compression will be not lossless
lepton works on jpeg that are lossy, yet they manage to have a smaller file size adding a lossless compression on top of it. I'm not sure why it won't be possible to do the same on a h.264 file and get a smaller file size. I know h.265 and av1 have lossless video compression. And I recently heard about FFV1. -- Best Regards, Stephane Archer
Been very seriously considering design scope. Dropbox is a no-go. Want to connect offline to describe your use case? On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:10 AM Stéphane Archer <archerstephane@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:00 AM Andrew Randrianasulu < randrianasulu@gmail.com> wrote:
сб, 30 сент. 2023 г., 16:58 Stéphane Archer <archerstephane@gmail.com>:
Is there an equivalent of Drobox Lepton but for h.264 videos? Lepton is a lossless compression algorithm to compress jpeg at around 20% there initial file size without any data loss. This is ideal to achieve jpeg. What about h.264 videos?
well, h264 videos already heavy and usually lossy compressed, any further compression will be not lossless
lepton works on jpeg that are lossy, yet they manage to have a smaller file size adding a lossless compression on top of it. I'm not sure why it won't be possible to do the same on a h.264 file and get a smaller file size. I know h.265 and av1 have lossless video compression. And I recently heard about FFV1.
-- Best Regards,
Stephane Archer _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-user
To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-user-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 11:00 AM David Bernat <david.bernat@gmail.com> wrote:
Been very seriously considering design scope. Dropbox is a no-go. Want to connect offline to describe your use case?
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:10 AM Stéphane Archer <archerstephane@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:00 AM Andrew Randrianasulu < randrianasulu@gmail.com> wrote:
сб, 30 сент. 2023 г., 16:58 Stéphane Archer <archerstephane@gmail.com :
Is there an equivalent of Drobox Lepton but for h.264 videos? Lepton is a lossless compression algorithm to compress jpeg at around 20% there initial file size without any data loss. This is ideal to achieve jpeg. What about h.264 videos?
well, h264 videos already heavy and usually lossy compressed, any further compression will be not lossless
lepton works on jpeg that are lossy, yet they manage to have a smaller file size adding a lossless compression on top of it. I'm not sure why it won't be possible to do the same on a h.264 file and get a smaller file size. I know h.265 and av1 have lossless video compression. And I recently heard about FFV1.
Dear David, I don't understand what you mean by "design scope". I would like to try a different analogy If the data was text and I wanted lossy compression then I would replace all the vowels with an "a" and then compress the resulting data with gzip. now if I switch gzip by using lzma instead, I would end up with a file smaller or the same size as the gzip version. Why does lossless h.265 or lossless av1 give me a larger file size than the original h.264? Why is this different for video? I hope my text compression analogy was clear. -- Best Regards, Stephane Archer
сб, 30 сент. 2023 г., 19:31 Stéphane Archer <archerstephane@gmail.com>:
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 11:00 AM David Bernat <david.bernat@gmail.com> wrote:
Been very seriously considering design scope. Dropbox is a no-go. Want to connect offline to describe your use case?
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:10 AM Stéphane Archer < archerstephane@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 10:00 AM Andrew Randrianasulu < randrianasulu@gmail.com> wrote:
сб, 30 сент. 2023 г., 16:58 Stéphane Archer < archerstephane@gmail.com :
Is there an equivalent of Drobox Lepton but for h.264 videos? Lepton is a lossless compression algorithm to compress jpeg at around 20% there initial file size without any data loss. This is ideal to achieve jpeg. What about h.264 videos?
well, h264 videos already heavy and usually lossy compressed, any further compression will be not lossless
lepton works on jpeg that are lossy, yet they manage to have a smaller file size adding a lossless compression on top of it. I'm not sure why it won't be possible to do the same on a h.264 file and get a smaller file size. I know h.265 and av1 have lossless video compression. And I recently heard about FFV1.
Dear David, I don't understand what you mean by "design scope".
I would like to try a different analogy
If the data was text and I wanted lossy compression then I would replace all the vowels with an "a" and then compress the resulting data with gzip.
now if I switch gzip by using lzma instead, I would end up with a file smaller or the same size as the gzip version. Why does lossless h.265 or lossless av1 give me a larger file size than the original h.264? Why is this different for video?
As far as I understand all those h26x series of codes use https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_estimation so only small difference between non-keyframes encoded, making file smaller (unless you try to compress say analog tv noise ...) DCT part is usually lossy by dropping some numbers ... so, if I understand correctly you can repack jpeg slightly differently, or recompress it completely into something like jpeg-xl, but video usually get a lot more info already removed, due to way only parts of image usually changes from frame to frame.
I hope my text compression analogy was clear.
-- Best Regards,
Stephane Archer _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-user
To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-user-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
On 9/30/2023 7:00 AM, Andrew Randrianasulu wrote:
well, h264 videos already heavy and usually lossy compressed, any further compression will be not lossless
There's one-way compression that reduces size by throwing away data (e.g. jpg) and two-way compression that reduces size but the result can't be used without reversal (e.g. gzip/lzma, etc). Dropbox Lepton is one of the latter; it's also been deprecated by Dropbox - https://github.com/dropbox/lepton. Often it's more precise to talk about "image compression" vs "file compression". Media and graphics people usually seem to mean one-way compression while computer people usually mean two-way. z!
Hi, I have no information on how Lepton actually works, but it's presumably making use of redundancy inherent to JPEG which make it possible for lossless compression to reduce their size so dramatically. JPEG is a very old standard, developed at a time of very limited computer resources, and all compression is a compromise of image quality, file size, and computer horsepower. Conversely, at least some video codecs already use lossless compression such as Huffman and arithmetic coding and it's quite possible that the kind of feature being requested here is more or less already implemented. Main and High profile H.264, HEVC and possibly others use context-based adaptive binary arithmetic coding, which is a type of lossless compression. This does more or less what Lepton appears to be doing for JPEGs. So the answer is that basically, it's already there. It might theoretically be possible to do better by using more computer resources (CPU time, memory, etc) to apply some other or more extensive type of lossless compression, but I would not expect it to be possible to achieve the sort of large gains that Lepton achieves with JPEG, at least with reasonable computer resources. P
participants (5)
-
Andrew Randrianasulu -
Carl Zwanzig -
David Bernat -
Phil Rhodes -
Stéphane Archer